Posts by Van Gogh

I did not describe a successful marriage (or long-term relationship based on expresses intentions, for that matter). Only what I believe one should be prepared to invest in order to achieve such a possible result. Of course a long-term commitment or (marital) relationship, like anything in life, is a risk, and could be worth only the paper it’s printed on. My words are only theory and intentions.

Serving out a marriage-term merely on the basis of a one-time contractual agreement would be a sorry state indeed. There are no guarantees (paper certainly isn’t) and there is no ideal marriage or relationship. But I do believe some sort of a commitment has at least to be made – to the other person. Committing to a marriage proposal is only a start and, yes, perhaps not that important except for the outside trappings. But do we want to commit to keep on committing?

It often takes many mistakes and failures in order to get this far. You’d need to have some level of confidence for the other party to think likewise. It’s the price we pay for having the freedom not to be trapped in a life-long loveless marriage based on a simple piece of paper with a stamp and a couple signatures.

Sorry for the rational rambling – empty words in themselves, I know.

BTW, you live in the Netherlands?

VG

112

Do you see your self remarrying?

by Cabin in the woods in

jw
friends

.

given your past life experiences and your current enlightenment would you ever get into that level of commitment again?.

cab

Van Gogh

Having grown up as dub, I have been a bit of a loner all my life. I was proud of my independence. Now, I believe this to be an unrewarding easy way out as well.

Since leaving the dubs six months ago my perspective on life past, present and future has of course changed radically. Within the confines of the bOrg there seemed to be few options but to remain alone. This could somehow be justified.

My non-jdub wife left me when I went back to practicing within the confines of the concept I was still a captive of back then. I believe that through sheer ignor/arrog-ance I was personally responsible to a large extent for her departure. I have been alone for more then ten years now – what a waste.

I now realize I only live once, and life is short. I have learnt many lessons the hard way. Now that I would perhaps be free to do as I please, I find that I am totally uninterested in exploring casual relationships. Accepting my mortality and losing my jdub morality, I found myself left with next to nothing, having to reevaluate and reestablish what life should be about for me – completely on my own this time. I have decided that no matter what, in the end all that counts is love and people. This is what bears fruit, makes beautiful things happen and thrive – regardless of any beliefs. Only on the outside of the org have I finally and fully recognized the possible implications and meaning of the concept of love and acceptance – without judgment.

I’m sick of being alone. The rest of my life, hopefully the next 25/30 years or so, I want to share and grow old with someone. No situation is ideal, but I crave for taking my responsibility in accepting, caring, loving, cherishing and devoting myself to/for someone willing to accept me as I am. I try to no longer look in the wrong places and at external attraction. I want to make somebody happy and be happy for it. I’m with anewme, Rabbit and Robdar

VG

27

WHAT MAKES EX-JW'S UNIQUE TO CREATE A DISCUSSION FORUM LIKE THIS?

by hopie in

jw
friends

there are millions world wide leaving their centuries old organized religions, why are ex-jw's joining together to create a fellowship and support system?.

are we the forerunners of something big?.

do we share something unique and don't know it?

Van Gogh

Auldsoul,

Yeah, freaks and missing links caught in between.

Perhaps there are too many dangers in the water so we really need to keep on flopping, hoping to evolve…together here, perhaps inadvertently learning to fly on the ultimate Scuba-diving forum.
VG of the flopping and hoping to fly class

Edited to say: somebody flew ahead

75

Do you love/care for people here?

by lonelysheep in

jw
friends

i care about all of you.

i love some of you and have told you that, some i love and haven't told (yet).

for some of us, those here truly are family and friends.

Van Gogh

What can I add to what's been said already?
Yes, I love and care very much for you.
VG
(from a tribe between two worlds)

32

How many times does "Jehovah" spuriously appear in the NT?

by AuldSoul in

we've all heard it, i'm sure.

"well, the nwt has restored the name jehovah where it should have been to start with.

" ever wanted to slap that smugness with an unarguable fact?

Van Gogh

Just wanted to thank those who afforded me/us the opportunity to freely tap into their knowledge banks, sharing their awesome grasp of the subject matter. What would this board be without you all? As the Divine plot thickens, I cannot but still hope LT's less analytical approach as to the true nature and identity of the Divine will ultimately prove to have more merit than humanity could ever have hoped for.

VG

(Sorry for highjacking the last stretch of your thread Auld)

28

I cannot beleive i am an " apostate"

by sspo in

jw
friends

my hell is just beginning, 26 years of marriage, almost divorced last year until we finally decided to get back and give it another try this year.

now i'll have to meet with the elders and tell them about my spirituality and doubts about the wts, 1914, 1995 generation change,malawy/mexico,and on and on and my wife will be there.

i do feel sorry for my wife because she has already lost 13 members of her family, "apostasy" and some just left the truth and even though some are not disfellowshipped she won't talk to them, now her husband, is going thru the same thing, she cannot accept it because out of 31 y. in the truth i was an elder and how could that happen.

Van Gogh

ssmo,
Your apology has been accepted, just as my apology has been accepted by others too. My heart goes out to you, and to you Quandry too.
Whatever our personal predisposition, path or circumstances, age plays an important part in our predicament.
I have noticed a significant difference in exit-attitude among exjdubs. Whereas many relatively younger ones to a certain extent can be affected for life, many of them enjoy the luxury of taking many things in their stride, learning a valuable, life altering lesson of life not afforded to many, being very opinionated about many a thing, some even being able to swiftly switch into entirely opposing beliefs like atheism. Perhaps it is a generation thing; a different JW generation, being more independent and critical in a more individualistic world, mere passage of time discrediting the WTS for all of us, the internet etc.
Odd though it may seem, I take heart from your situation. Every time I read of situations like yours, I know at least I'm not alone. You are not alone. Perhaps we tend to look too much at others around us who seem to be better off. But is that always realistic? Many of us did what we thought was best. We made choices based on our most sincere beliefs, hopes, values and desires. They were messed with and it hurts bad. But despite everything we actually stood for something, however misguided it may have turned out to be for all of us. And right now you are proving to still stand for your convictions, whatever the consequences. I think that takes so much courage. You deserve a lot of credit for that. Take pride in that; console yourself with that. I wish you lots of wisdom.
VG

32

How many times does "Jehovah" spuriously appear in the NT?

by AuldSoul in

we've all heard it, i'm sure.

"well, the nwt has restored the name jehovah where it should have been to start with.

" ever wanted to slap that smugness with an unarguable fact?

Van Gogh

Auld,

I’m talking about scriptural proof of the actual biblical nature of The Divine according to the way the First Century NT equates Christ with the OT Yahweh, even legitimizing Christ by referring to OT passages on Yahweh as messianic prophesies (as opposed to mere evidence as to how early Christians might or might not have perceived God or developed the Trinity doctrine).

Hence: if Christ=Yahweh, how does this fit into a Trinity? VG

32

How many times does "Jehovah" spuriously appear in the NT?

by AuldSoul in

we've all heard it, i'm sure.

"well, the nwt has restored the name jehovah where it should have been to start with.

" ever wanted to slap that smugness with an unarguable fact?

Van Gogh

I agree with Thelistener. This to me too is one of the main frauds of the WTS.

Supporting moggy lover, have a look at this webpage on the J-versions that were not used to insert “Jehovah” into the NWT:

“Significantly, the Divine Name appears in the J-versions many more times than those recorded in the Kingdom Interlinear. These reproductions show the Divine Name in J 8 at Hebrews 1:10; in J 13 at 1 Peter 2:3, and in J 14 at both 1 Peter 2:3 and 1 Corinthians 12:3. No reference to these occurrences of the Tetragrammaton appears in the Kingdom Interlinear. Why?”

Source: http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/hiding.html

This webpage also explains why the 1969 edition of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures could be a much more sought after edition than the 1985 one.

I have a question if I may.

Many OT passages using the Divine Name are quoted in the NT as referring to Jesus (and wrongly translated back to “Jehovah” in the NWT).

Is this further proof for some sort of Trinity, i.e. Yahweh the Father/Jesus the Son/Holy Spirit? Or are Yahweh and Jesus the same as opposed to The Father within such Trinity, i.e. The Father/Jesus the Son-Yahweh/Holy Spirit?

VG

24

Where or what would you be today, if you would have never became a JW?

by JH in

jw
friends

.

often i wonder what i would be doing or even where would i be living, if i would have never met the jw's back in the late 80's.. maybe it wouldn't have made any difference, or on the contrary, maybe a huge difference.

the only way to really know would be to go back in time and change what happened and that's impossible.. .

Van Gogh

My parents met because they were jaydubs. It was the very reason for my existence, though the reason does not exist anymore for me. So I was never meant to be in the first place...

Because of our unique experience of absolute truth turning into obvious lie, us exjdubs have become acutely aware of the fickleness of fate. Questioning deeply embedded beliefs will put everything into question - who am I, who should I be/have been, where should I be/have been.

But of course life is just as fickle for all those that have not become aware of this because they were never born, or if they were, were killed in a senseless car accident -- just as fickle for those that have become acutely aware because they were the heart-broken parent of the victim of that car accident -- just as fickle for those that have not become aware, coasting along contently because they were never confronted with mind-boggling dilemmas of angst-induced absolute truth about a supposed choice between everlasting life or eternal destruction.

Because we sometimes demonize JWism we should at least not doubt the no doubt often sincere, idealistic and honourable motives behind those "choices" we now regret. Dwelling on this impossible and elusive proposition - thinking in terms as if you had a say in the matter; a really informed choice - is guaranteed to cause unhappiness. We never chose to be misled. Most people, if not all, are misled to a certain extent. It is simply that our lie was exposed which should make us aware that having a choice is a relative thing. In real life no one gets the informed choice between the blue or the red pill. At least when we tasted the red pill we somehow chose to swallow it. We should commend ourselves for our courage. I think we should not torture ourselves too much with overrating the heavy burden of choice (even though I still do so myself).

VG